Are your homeschooled kids missing out?

Question

Are your homeschooled kids missing out?

Answer 1

Figured I would give my point of view here as a home school mom who went to public school.

First and last day: We have a picnic with the HEA there are over 200 families belonging to this group.

"Graduating" to the next grade: Big deal! My kids couldn't care because they know next year the work will be harder

Schedule: We live on one or nothing would ever get done.

Lunch hour: aka popularity contest? My kids were required to sit and be silent. Wow so much fun there!

Recess is a must to keep me sane.

School holidays: How are they missing those? My kids take all the same breaks public school kids do plus any other day I chose to let them out

First Crush and kiss: my kids are 9, 5 and 20 months those things will come in time.

Home from school: and into 4 hours of home work Yeah something to look forward to

Passing notes: what kid in CO-OP doesn't do that?

Detention: Oh yeah I missed that one myself and did just fine

Going to school with the same kids: until you move

Learning more than a Church group/family/ HS group: those are better influences than the public schooled kids

Struggling w/ long division: if they are struggling that means they don't get it and you may have to choose a curriculum that they can understand.

Embarrassment: my daughter has no problem embarrassing herself

And the holidays you mention they learn about those and even participate in the celebrations



I don't think they are missing too much.

Answer 2

I think I take too much pleasure in answering this question...



The first day of school - I always had a first day of school when I was homeschooled. My mom had us do an "About Me" sheet with our "favorites", it was cool to see our tastes change every year.



The LAST day of school - No duh I had a last day of school! It was what we all looked forward to!



"Graduating" to the next grade - that happened every summer, we moved up a grade



A schedule - if we didn't have a schedule, nothing would ever have gotten done!



Lunch Hour - I ate lunch every day, it was mandatory



Recess - I had recess pretty much whenever I wanted for as long as I wanted. Much better than my public school counterparts who didn't even get recess.



Christmas break, spring break, summer break and the first day back from these breaks - I had all those breaks (and still do) and all those first day back.



First crush, first kiss - I had a couple crushes and I was homeschooled. First kiss on the other hand, I'm still waiting for...



Coming home from school - Yeah, I guess homeschoolers do miss out on that



Passing notes - That still happens, as long as there's more than one kid being homeschooled (my sister and I always passed notes)



Making the honor roll - Well, I guess homeschoolers are on their own honor roll



Going to dentention - Oh yeah!? What about when you misbehave during "school time"?



Going to school with the same kids & building friendships EVERY DAY - I hung out with the same kids everyday and built friendships, I just didn't spend time sitting in a classroom with them.



Learning to become a part of something that isn't your church/family/homeschool group. - Like those things aren't important? Anyway, homeschoolers are involved in other groups, too!



Struggling long division who are also struggling with long division - No, I struggled with my friends.



Feeling embarassment - Embarrassment was a daily occurance for me (still is, really).



Being away from your mom/siblings for more than 1 or 2 hours. - I went to Mexico and winter camps, I guess those don't count?



I'm not sure about this, so I'll post a question -- but learning about 'STUFF -- Christopher Columbus, Martin Luther King, Halloween, Valentine's Day, Art, Music, Sports. " - I learned about all that stuff and more...probably more than my public schooled friends.



So much more I could say to each of these statements, but I don't want to vent too much tonight. But really, homeschoolers don't miss out on anything! We rock!

Answer 3

· The first day of school

All of the homeschooling families we know meet up for ice cream and a not back to school party at the local park.



· The LAST day of school

We have a big celebration and go out to eat, to an amusement park and have a campfire with our homeschooling friends.

· "Graduating" to the next grade

We do the above and put together our portfolio of what cool things we did and studied that year.

· A schedule

You should see my calendar! The schedule changes every day, so my kids learn to manage their time, without having a bell ringing – just like in the real world !

· Lunch Hour

We have great lunches at our house, but we often go out and meet friends at the park too.

· Recess

We have lots of playtime with friends, jumping rope, playing hopscotch and other childhood games like spy and tag. All the schools around here have no recess, isn’t that sad?

· Christmas break, spring break, summer break and the first day back from these breaks

We take breaks any time we want, and yes, getting back to work can be brutal!

· First crush, first kiss

???? What, homeschooled kids can’t have crushes? Tell my 9 year old that, would you?

Coming home from school

They miss out on this. Darn



· Passing notes

Never seen a Homeschool class have you?? LOL

· Making the honor roll

Miss out on this too.

· Going to detention

No, and I never had to go either, really scarred me for life I tell ya.

· Going to school with the same kids & building friendships EVERY DAY

Yeah, cause that builds diversity! Give me a break. My kids have long standing friendships based on similar interests, across wide age ranges. They have learned early that you have to work to keep a friend, it isn’t just a convenience of who sits near you in class.

· Learning to become a part of something that isn't your church/family/homeschool group.

Yeah, because those things, they don’t matter at all, it has to be a CLASS, united by birth year!

· Struggling long division who are also struggling with long division

??? You assume again that they never engage in any type of group learning situation.

· Feeling embarrassment

Yeah, cause that can only happen in school. (I wish!)

· Being away from your mom/siblings for more than 1 or 2 hours.

So that overnight camp, what is that? Has to be school to count, eh?

· I'm not sure about this, so I'll post a question -- but learning about 'STUFF -- Christopher Columbus, Martin Luther King, Halloween, Va

??? We learn about all sorts of things, not just American history but World history. As opposed to my public schooled counterparts, who know nothing but American history (oh, and they spent an entire YEAR learning about our state’s history… but know nothing about the entire Eastern Hemisphere - ??)





You know not of what you speak, that much is obvious!

Answer 4

Of all the things to mention missing by being homeschooled: the lunch hour. That is the thing we will never miss. I am sure it's different at most schools, but similar enough: first of all, it is NEVER an hour, you have to get in and out so the next group gets theirs. Get in a LONG line, watch the kids who brought their lunch and didn't forget to bring it to the lunch area because if you did you weren't allowed to go back and get yours once you're in the herd, they run to the best tables, you have to get charged (or sent to the office to call your parents for money) for a box or tray with a little over-processed, yucky tasting in-edibles and if you're lucky, the milk that your parents paid for, then be forced to swat at flying insects on the warm days where you eat outside, or lose your hearing on the cold ones where you are crammed into the cafeteria/multipurpose room, and hope no one asks you for the one food item you do want to eat because you're starving from the lack of nutrition but chose the so called "hot lunch" because it was cool or you'd be made fun of for eating REAL food. If you throw a bully or two, or perhaps a wicked food worker into the scenario, it gets real memorable....oh joy.

Answer 5

The answerer's post neglected to mention other things homeschoolers miss out on:







being bullied by their peers



using only clear or mesh backpacks so as not to conceal a weapon



going through a security gate so as not to conceal a weapon ( I guess if homeschoolers want to experience this, we can always take a field trip to the airport)



being forced to sit quietly in the lunchroom when others won't be quiet enough to suit the cafeteria monitor



having their lunch money stolen



being forced to wait on the rest of the class class to catch up before moving onto a new math formula, new history lesson, new scientific principle, etc.



having to comply with a dress code put into place by school administrators just because of a few kids who don't dress with respect for others



having to wait 12 years to graduate when he might have been ready to do it in only ten



being recruited for a gang



being offered drugs on a campus



being sexually pressured to fit into the cool crowd





p.s. Homeschool kids do have lunch every day too LOL! And since when is detention a rite of passage no kid should miss out on?

Answer 6

I just have to laugh at this list. I am so very thankful my daughter will missing all of these things. They surely will only dumb her down and are not important in the whole scheme of things. Who in the heck cares about first day of school, last day of school, we have schedules, we have lunch and are not rushed thru it or limited as to what we can eat, we can play all day long if we want anywhere we want and not stuck with kids our own age and limited to what and where we can play for a limit amount of time, we get breaks all the time and not just Holidays, my daughter will have her first crush and her first kiss with some guy that hasn't been around the block many times over, awww to think she is already safe at home, she has the freedom of speech and has no need to "pass notes", to me she is on the honor roll everyday and gets praised for it, she learns in a positive manner from her mistakes and is not forced into detention and ridiculed, she gets to meet a variety of people and meets new friends everyday, she gets to learn to be a part of this huge world we live in, she won't have to struggle alone and will get one on one to learn it, oh she will still suffer from embarrasment that is just a part of life no matter where you are, oh she gets to be away from me all the time, she will learn much more important things inlife including about all the things mentioned above.



I don't even know why I responded to this because it is just ridiculous and written by someone that has zero experience with homeschooling and is clearly against something that don't now Jack Squat about.

Answer 7

Yes, thank goodness, they do miss out on most of that junk. Rather than being limited to a few 'special' days, every day can be special in home education. Every day is a new exploration.



They also miss out on bullying, being humiliated, getting bad grades, having to stop work because the bell rang, negative peer pressure, being expected to conform, and much more.



But they learn a great deal more than most of the kids who go to school, in less time, and in more enjoyable ways. They can choose whether or not to take part in music, sports, art, drama and so on - and have more time to do so. They make friends of all ages rather than just those in their year-group, and they have no problem adjusting to life as adults.

Answer 8

Yes you missed some things.....



1.child crying because they don't want to ride the bus.

2.getting in fights

3.coming home crying, because someone want talk to her because your child talk to someone else .... the "I'm not your friend anymore"

4 being told santa isn't real before you are ready to tell

5 learning all kinds of sexual things and dirty words before they are old enough

6 being ignored by underpaid, tired teachers... while your child falls further behind in a subject they are having trouble with.

7. being told by the principle that your child got an unexcused absence because we were out of state for a court hearing and could in no way get her there.

8. All the drama that happens at school and not the teaching that should be...

9. Shall I remind people of Columbine and all the other schools that have had shootings

10. Teachers that physically abuse kids.



I can name more things.... shall I?

Answer 9

Homeschooled kids do experience most of those things, but kids don't need all of those experiences. Until about 150 years ago only a few kids had the experience of going to school, because they were taught at home by their parents.



Kids in a "traditional" school setting miss out on things too. Things like:



one on one instruction



the chance to interact with people of different ages, backgrounds, and economic levels



The flexibility to work their education around their interests



The chance to really know their parents and siblings



A better academic education



The chance to learn most of their manners from adults and older children rather than their peers



DHC

You do have the right to your own opinion.



Homeschool parents tend to be defensive because we answer the same questions over and over again. We shouldn't have to defend our choices at all, because they are our decisions to make and no one else's business.



I find it interesting that you feel the need to express your opinion so forcefully and repetitiously when you are free to choose public schools for your own family. Why do you care so much about homeschooling?

Answer 10

The first day of school - we have a first day of school.

The LAST day of school - we have a last day of school.

"Graduating" to the next grade - who cares about this? We go on when we're ready to go on.

A schedule - oh my gosh, without an externally imposed schedule how would we live?! (sarcasm)

Lunch Hour - We eat lunch. We eat multiple snacks. We drink water when we want. We use the bathroom when we need to! Duh!

Recess - More recess than hard stuff a lot of days.

Christmas break, spring break, summer break and the first day back from these breaks - We usually take all of these, so that my kids can do stuff with their friends who have to follow a public or private school schedule.

First crush, first kiss - They don't live in a bubble - they don't miss out on these things!

Coming home from school - They don't have to miss out on this because they're already there.

Passing notes - My kids pass notes and invitations to each other. My oldest text messages and IMs her friends. So?

Making the honor roll - not worried about it.

Going to dentention - Since when are we "missing out" if we don't go to detention. I don't think detention hall involves lots of fun music and dancing like in "Hairspray"!

Going to school with the same kids & building friendships EVERY DAY - My kids are building friendships with the same kids every day. Their siblings, neighbors, etc.

Learning to become a part of something that isn't your church/family/homeschool group. - Girl Scouts, 4H, lessons, community service, etc. etc.

Struggling long division who are also struggling with long division - who cares?

Feeling embarassment - sorry, but my kids have all of the same feelings as any other kids, including embarassment.

Being away from your mom/siblings for more than 1 or 2 hours. - All of my kids have been away from me for sleepovers, playdates, and all of the normal things without me or their siblings. Not just with other home-schooling families, but with neighborhood friends and other schooled friends. The oldest has done Scouting Camp and county fair.

I'm not sure about this, so I'll post a question -- but learning about 'STUFF -- Christopher Columbus, Martin Luther King, Halloween, Valentine's Day, Art, Music, Sports. "

My kids learn about all of these things - we decorate for Halloween and go to parties or trick-or-treating, make Valentines, do art projects, sports etc. - all of these!



Oh, I couldn't answer any better than Bearich! Some of the things that homeschooled kids miss out on are the very reasons we're homeschooling!

Answer 11

To the person who originally answered that way, on behalf of my 10yo son:



The first day of school - nope, he can read a calendar. He knows exactly when this is. We go to the store, he picks out his supplies and gets them all ready, and really kind of enjoys getting back into it.



The last day of school - again, he can actually read a calendar. He also knows in advance what work he needs to complete before the last day of school for the semester, so if he gets it done early, then the last day of the semester comes early. Public school kids can't say that!



Graduating to the next grade - well, his work isn't limited to the grade he's in, so this comes when his church class graduates. That's really the only reason he knows what grade he's in anyway, so he knows which class to go to at church, lol. He kind of feels sorry for the kids that have to do work that some grade-level coordinator sets out for them (and the other several hundred kids in their age-related class), rather than being able to do work that suited to their abilities and interests.



A schedule - are you kidding me? He has a schedule that a Wall Street exec would struggle to keep up with - and he stays on top of it pretty darn well.



Lunch hour - again, he feels sorry for the kids who have to wait for a bell to ring to tell them when it's time to eat. Lunch hour means taking a break from a project or book when he gets hungry, and walking to the kitchen to get something to eat.



Christmas break - his is 6 weeks long. His public school friends really are jealous about that one!



Spring break - he gets his whenever he needs it, not when the school district schedules one.



Summer break - he gets to schedule his own. Again, he kind of feels sorry for the kids who don't get to do this.



First day back - again, the calendar thing. He knows how it works, and can read it just fine!



First crush, first kiss - does homeschooling make him a eunuch? It didn't last time I checked...and when he gets ready to see girls in that way, he'll have a first crush and a first kiss. The difference is, they'll happen when HE's ready for it, not when the school "socialization" tells him it's time.



Coming home from school - well, ya got me there. However, he doesn't have to get up before the rooster to leave in the first place. So there.



Passing notes - and the great exhileration in this is found where? He actually enjoys paying attention in his classes, whether they're at home or elsewhere. He actually does feel sorry for students who can't say the same.



Making the honor roll - from the work I've seen at our local schools, that's not really an achievement. He already works several years ahead of them. However, he'll have the chance to make honor roll at a local university by the time he's 15.



Going to detention - I spent a little time there in high school, can't say it was that big of an experience. I'm not really seeing the point with this one. So, he doesn't get the chance to be a smart@ss in class and lose the privilege to have freedom over his own time? Poor kid.



He doesn't have to go to the SAME room and be with the SAME kids EVERY DAY...he gets a whole lot more variety than that.



He also learns to become a part of his baseball team, his Scout troop, the library that he volunteers at, the community that he lives in, and the museums and nature centers that he frequents. I suppose that is all overshadowed by sitting in a single room with the same people and the same schedule every single day, though. Poor, poor kid.



He didn't actually struggle with long division - he did teach it to the kid across the street, though.



Feeling embarrassment - are you kidding? He's a kid. He makes mistakes, and he feels embarrassed. (He can spell it, too.) However, he doesn't have 50 people standing, pointing, and laughing when he does make a mistake. He's got kids, teens, and adults who understand that they're not perfect either, and let him know that he's still part of the group.



Being away from Mom for more than 1 or 2 hours - well, he's got:

Baseball practice 2-3 times a week

Play practice 2-3 times a week

Scout events, on at least a weekly basis

Time with Grandpa while Mom teaches at a co op

Trips to visit relatives while regular school's in session (on his own) - tourist attractions are a lot more fun to go to when there aren't 50,000 people all trying to get on the same ride

Campouts

Sleepovers

etc., etc., etc.

He's fine with being with Mom and Dad, and he's confident enough to go somewhere without us.



He knows more about Christopher Columbus, Martin Luther King, Halloween, Valentine's Day, Art History, Music Theory, Music History, and his chosen sports than most adults do. He asks, he reads, he experiments, and he learns.



Nope, he's not missing out. The few times that people have asked him things like that, he looked at them as if they had grown a third eye, asked why they would think that, and launched into exactly what he's NOT missing out on. Funny, they never brought it up again.



Edit...DHC, get off your high horse. You're allowed to have whatever opinion you want, we honestly don't care. However, if you're going to state it in an insulting, rude, condescending manner that doesn't allow for any opinion but yours, you're going to get a lot of negative responses. However, if you took the time to disagree respectfully, those negative responses - or a lot of them, anyway - would magically disappear.

Answer 12

Homeschool kids also miss out on



Detention

Strip searches

Suspension

Locker searches

Back pack searches

Metal detector searches

Being yelled at

Swats

Standing outside in 17 degree temperature after taking a PE shower

Bad caffeteria food

Expensive caffeteria food

Someone yelling "GET OFF THE WALL!"

Having to raise your hand and ANNOUCING TO ALL you have to go WEE WEE

Being humiliated by an undereducated teacher who doesn't know that a G-CELF is also a TREBLE CLEFF

Half hour bus rides

Bullying

Fist fights

Guns pointed in your face

Shootings on campus (Columbine, et al)

Lock downs

BEing forced to stay in school for one extra year because you finished all your AP and Honors courses in 11th grade because you can't graduate unless you are in the 12th grade



Watching 16 year old homeschoolers get accepted by Stanford and GOING THERE while they are 16 not 18



Having sexual realations with your teachers (espeically the 24 year old female ones who like 14 year old boys)



Dying at the age of 16 when the NERD no one likes comes on to campus with an assault rifle.



Having a Study Hall major for four years when you fail Algebra 1

Answer 13

Homeschooled kids are NOT isolated from kids their own age!



Many families form co-ops with other homeschooling families and share activties and field trips with the kids.



Some homeschoolers, especially the high school age kids will have weekly classes with community leaders in specialties.



I know of a local talk show host who has a history degree who teaches weekly history, economics and government classes to middle and high school age homeschoolers.



Many public school districts have homeschooling outreach programs where the homeschoolers can take one class on campus.....like lab science classes that wouldn't work at home.



And considering the disfunctional nature of herding kids in and out of age ghettos, homeschooling is a much more healthy alternative to the public schools.



Parents have every right to raise their children to their standards, religion, and political beliefs. In many cases the public schools are honor bound to UNDERMINE families.



You have listed things that are irrevelant and destructive to raising socially responsible and mature kids.



Did you know that many homeschooled kids are the ones who win state and national spelling bees? Many homeschoolers pass their SATs and get into Ivy League universities.



I've met many homeschooled kids who are so much more at ease around adults and have wonderfully mature vocabularies free of "teen speak".



Families should raise and educate their children, not the STATE.

Answer 14

It has all been said, but I want to add my voice to the din. If you think you hear a touch of sarcasm, it is because rebutting these assumptions gets old and I have to laugh to keep from crying.

The first day of school:

My daughter chooses this day herself. She is integral in all the planning we do. I’m sorry the asker missed out on this experience. It is rather empowering.

The LAST day of school:

Ditto

"Graduating" to the next grade:

A friend of mine is fond of saying, “Age ain’t nothing but a number”. I feel the same about grades.

A schedule:

We have one of those as well. It is flexible. We’ll begin an hour later tomorrow because we had guests over until late tonight. I’ll ask her in the morning if she feels that has somehow robbed her of a key childhood experience.

Lunch Hour:

She hates cafeteria food. She never got an actual hour anyway. At home, she does. We have a friend or two over for lunch about twice a week. She loves our meals together at home. I lovingly prepare healthy food that she enjoys immensely. She never has to eat silently. As a matter of fact, conversation is encouraged.

Recess:

The public schools in our area have completely done away with recess. We walk the dogs, go shopping, out for chai latte’s and jump on the trampoline when we need a break. Again, I’ll ask her if she’d prefer to mimic public school and do away with these activities, but I don’t think she’ll go for it.

Christmas break, spring break, summer break and the first day back from these breaks

We time all our breaks to match up fairly closely with public school so she can attend the camps and play with her friends as much as possible.

First crush, first kiss

She was crushing on a boy at a basketball game this weekend. She crushes on Sting daily. (She’s an eighties music fan.) Even though I have tried to convince her that boys all eat boogers and kissing them is unsanitary. The conditioning doesn’t seem to be working. I have a feeling that kissing may be just around the corner.

Coming home from school:

No, but she does know when the buses come around that the phone will start ringing shortly after, so she had better get her school work done pronto! She also gets to greet her father when he gets home and tell him what she has accomplished. That is a proud time for her.

Passing notes

She’ll live.

Making the honor roll

Not every traditionally schooled child has this experience so how is this unique to homeschoolers?

Going to dentention

Ditto

Going to school with the same kids & building friendships EVERY DAY

No, rather she has learned to take the initiative and build her friendships naturally. She has friends of all ages and backgrounds. She does not see them all everyday. She does see them regularly and knows that they love her for her. The kids who stopped calling when she left public school, fell away quickly. They were only her friend when it was convenient. She was sad to know that they were so fickle. They ones who remained and those she made since then, however are the kind of people who I feel she will have in her corner for a very long time. It can be hard to find out who your real friends are, but it is worth it just to know you have true friends.

Learning to become a part of something that isn't your church/family/homeschool group.

My child studies martial arts and truly feels like a part of that dojo. She is joining a community chorus and dreams of starting a garage band. There are many more ways to belong than being one student out of hundreds in a public school. Most of whom, I might add indicate frequently that they do not fit in and feel isolated in the halls of their schools.

Struggling long division who are also struggling with long division:

No, but she will have my undivided attention as she struggles. She can also call up a buddy and they can commiserate by phone.

Feeling embarrassment:

*blink* You cannot believe that only happens in schools.

Being away from your mom/siblings for more than 1 or 2 hours.:

We cut the cord along time ago. She has been states away from me.

I'm not sure about this, so I'll post a question -- but learning about 'STUFF -- Christopher Columbus, Martin Luther King, Halloween, Valentine's Day, Art, Music, Sports. ":

Yes, yes and yes! Why wouldn’t a homeschooled child learn about these things? Are they implying that they are pop culture illiterate? I don’t understand what is being asked.

Try this on: Do you know the name of Bruce Lee’s last movie? Could you tell an Impressionist painting from a Fauvist? Do you know who Adam Ant is? Did you ever dress as him for Halloween just to confuse the neighbors? Do you know the proper way to pronounce the word Samhain and what Jack-o-lanterns were originally carved from? Do you know all the words to the first verse of Subterranean Homesick Blues? Do you know what a sonic screwdriver is? What is a Mentat and in which Sci Fi classic will you find one? In what wildly popular Broadway musical does the waiter beg the cast not to push the tables together, just before they sing and dance on said tables? In what horror film do you originally find the line, “They’re coming to get you Barbara”? If you want to know the answer to these and other pop culture questions, ask my kid. She, like all kids, has her own interests, lives her own life and knows a little something about the world she lives in. Does she know it all? Nah. She knows what she needs to and what she finds interesting. Homeschooling has not placed her in a bubble.

Answer 15

The first day of school: I usually have a startup week, when all my classes kick in. I like it.



The LAST day of school: School doesn't suck for me, so the last day is more of a welcome break than a liberation.



"Graduating" to the next grade: I've been doing college-level work in most subjects for a while, so yeah, I'm missing out on that. I do enjoy getting beyond things in math though...I like math but proofs get *really* repetitive.



A schedule: I have a schedule. 2-3 hours at the library every day. Then karate, theater group, music lessons, jamming with my band, general hanging out, math class, and anything else that may come up. It's not divided in to 40-minute increments, but I've noticed that adults don't live their lives like that.



Lunch Hour: Where I come from, we call those breaks. A lot of kids head to the nearest deli or pizza joint and we chill out for an hour. Usually it's only about 20-30 minutes, but in my area kids only get 35 minutes for lunch so it about works out.



Recess: I assume they don't have that in high school. When I was in the younger grades (Been homeschooled 4-10) I just went outside. Didn't need a regimented break.



Christmas break, spring break, summer break and the first day back from these breaks: I get all of those, though I don't have a set place to go back to. I do enjoy seeing all my friends again in my classes, which can happen outside of a school building.



First crush, first kiss: I have a boyfriend. We've been together for a bit over a year now. My mom had nothing to do with our meeting.



Coming home from school: I come home from my classes and hanging out, no later than my 10:30 curfew. Is that invalid because I don't come back at 4:30 with four hours of homework?



Passing notes: I have occasionally done that, but since I can actually hang out with my friends, I don't find it especially rewarding.



Making the honor roll: I've been at the top of a few classes, but I haven't needed that kind of ego trip. Besides, most people don't do that so you can't act like it's a vital school experience.



Going to dentention: I regret to say that I'm a reasonably polite student. You have my profound apologies.



Going to school with the same kids & building friendships EVERY DAY: Well, I do get to hang out with my friends EVERY DAY but I don't go to a school building EVERY DAY.



Learning to become a part of something that isn't your church/family/homeschool group: Theater group, robotics team, and a funk band.



Struggling long division who are also struggling with long division: That's not a complete sentence, but I get the idea. I have those types of experiences, but my math is more advanced.



Feeling embarassment: Wait...we should pay thousands of dollars a year to go to a place and be embarrassed? It's much more cost-effective to do it for free. I'm a teenager. I humiliate myself. It's what we do.



Being away from your mom/siblings for more than 1 or 2 hours: I leave the house at no later than 11 AM and don't come back until 10:30. My dad is at work until about 11, my mom works from home but is out for much of the day, and my sister is a Jedi/general combatant and is out until after midnight sometimes, working on fight scenes. Our issue is finding more time to be together.



I'm not sure about this, so I'll post a question -- but learning about 'STUFF -- Christopher Columbus, Martin Luther King, Halloween, Valentine's Day, Art, Music, Sports:



Columbus: Not the first one to discover America; my ancestors beat him to it. But, he was the guy who brought syphillis back to Europe.



Martin Luther King: Overall a cool guy, even if he was a communist and a plagiarist.



Halloween: My Halloween party was pretty cool, but we ended up trick-or-treating (never too old) too late because a few people had transportation issues and we didn't want to start without them. It was pretty awesome though.



Valentine's Day: I remember in school, we had to make Valentines but we couldn't put names on them or give them to anyone. They were unsigned and randomly distributed. I found that rather confusing.



Anyway, I was pretty happy with last Valentine's Day and am looking forward to this one.



Art: I don't draw very well but my writing is okay. I'm a classical music fan and think that I have a decent amount of musical understanding, but I have a hard time getting something more out of physical artwork like paintings and sculptures.



Music: Piano lessons and being a bass player in a band don't count?



Sports: I take karate classes but what I really want to do is parkour. They don't have that at my local school.



You know, looking over this list...I feel really deprived.

Answer 16

I home schooled my child after the elementary years he missed out on drugs alcohol poor self esteem being bullied sex being with the wrong crowd he gained leadership skills independent thinking the ability to know what matters in life morals oh yeah and a great education.

Answer 17

ROTFLM effin AO....you think that we "miss" that stuff?



All that is socially constructed to give some meaning to the wasted thirteen years of your life....people MOURN the first day of school, they start dreading it the second school lets out for summer, they waste so much energy looking forward to the last day of school, we homeschool and every day is like summer vacation.

We love being home, because our parents are with us, and understand us, there is no dread about being there. We love going out into the world because it's on our own terms, and home isn't a place we have to retreat to from school.



Passing notes is a form of defiance that we don't have to embrace because no one is imprisoning us against our will, honor roll is just another way of 'patting the dog' and saying good boy. Detention is just another way of judging someone and saying you're not good enough. WHY would I miss any of that?



Going to see the same friends every day? I do that. Make new friends every day? I do that. I'm part of the real world, which is bigger than school and church and family all together. I spend hours with friends. I travel the country while you're stuck in a building without leave. I can spend two or three nights with my friends because we don't have to get up at the butt crack of dawn to catch a bus in the cold dark winter morning. I can stay up til midnight playing Guitar Hero or surfing the net or chatting with teens in India because it's all part of my learning.



My schedule is created by myself, to suit my needs, like any other reasonable adult. I don't need someone ringing a bell in my ear to tell me it's time to learn math, it's time to learn science, it's time to eat, it's time to pee. Schedules are part of life for any working person.



So, if we're out in the real world, we'll never hear about valentine's day? WFT....Wal-mart puts their crap out two months before...how are we not going to know about it? MLK, JR day was today, we went to the parade, went to see an actor reenact his "I have a dream" speech, BECAUSE WE WANTED TO. Not because it was part of some curriculum and it was spoon fed to us. We take art class from real artists, at a museum. We learn music from real musicians, not a teacher who was trained to teach music. We take sports with people who PLAY sports, not teach it. You forgot scouts and 4H and dance and library and most importantly, volunteer work because all the rest is to build us up, but if we don't build up the rest of the world, we have little left for us to inherit as adults. All those are possible in the real world, without it being some meaningless drivel created by some psychologist to feed a need left by the lack of worth in the average school kids life.



That reasoning is insane. That's basically what I would have to say to whomever pasted the above.

Answer 18

In the grand scheme of life, most of these things are not important. Also, how is the following essential to a child's education?



passing notes

going to detention

Answer 19

Wow, I missed that response. Probably a good thing. ;) Except now I'm seeing it so I guess there's no difference.



Actually, we do have a first day and last day of school each year. Not-back-to-school party on the first day, big field trip on the last day. First day and last day of *going* to school are social constructs that we humans did just fine without for many, many, many years. And if my kids miss it, so what? I hardly consider them super important. These are artificial milestones based on an artificial situation.



Graduating to the next grade--my kids know which grade they are in. I never had "graduations" when I was in school except for gr. 6, 9 and 12. And let me tell you, I'd have been fine not having participated in them.



A schedule--some homeschoolers actually have a strict schedule. I'm not sure why this is "missing out"--this is some great delight in life?



Lunch hour--actually, my kids do get to have lunch each day.



Recess--instead of only getting 10 minutes outside during the winter (because it takes 5 minutes to get into snowpants, boots, winter coat, toque and mitts), twice a day with a 20-30-minute lunch recess, they get to spend HOURS at a time outside building forts and stuff--that will NEVER be destroyed by other kids.



Actually, we have all the same breaks. I'm not sure what's supposed to be "missing out" on not going back to school after that--that's really exciting and important in life? You're going to be 80 and go, "Dang, I can't believe I was sick that one day and missed my first day back from spring break!"



First crush, first kiss??? What??? I know homeschooled teens who have very much had crushes and who have dated.



Coming home from school... Wow. What excitement. Not sure how they're ever going to forgive me for that one.



Passing notes--not exactly something that we should be valuing as an important experience since it's forbidden in school.



Making the honour roll--uh, most kids here do NOT make the honour roll. That's why it's the honour roll--only for the cream of the crop. And I'm glad my kids don't live in that competitive atmosphere, worrying about staying on the honour roll or feeling badly for not making it (or having somebody else beat them higher up on the honour roll). Not psychologically good for them.



Going to detention--again, there's this valuing of BAD things. Is that what society has come to? That not participating in things that you shouldn't be doing means you're not only missing out on something "wonderful" but you don't get to experience the punishment???? No wonder our society is in the state it's in.



The whole friends thing... Highly artificial. If you don't grow up with it, you don't feel like you're missing out. You really think that all the people who didn't go to school before mass schooling started (late 1800s) were "missing out" on this? How about they were actually being raised to function much like they would in their adult lives????? Again, no wonder our society is the way it is. Too much focus on friends and fun and irresponsibility, which has led to the much valued party lifestyle for high school and college.



So, my kids can't learn to be a part of the community sports teams they'll be playing on this summer? They can't feel they are a part of the community we live in?



Don't even know what the next item's supposed to mean. It honestly sounds like somebody who just put down a whole bunch of things just to say a whole bunch of things without giving thought to whether they were really things that people are missing out on that they will regret.



Feeling embarrassment????? What, that's GOOD???? And homeschooled kids can't get embarrassed????? What the heck????



Wow, the next item is so presumptive, even worse than the embarrassment thing. And to be honest, I don't see why elementary children SHOULD be away from their family for longer than that. It's called RAISING THE KIDS AND BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM. You know, like how people USED to be before they sent their kids to school for 7 hours a day.



{rolling my eyes}



Good grief. That's what I really should have said and not bothered to type the rest. Or I could have retorted with something public schooled kids miss out on. I will say that it sounds like that the thing public schooled kids may be missing out on most is a true sense of perspective--of seeing what's truly important in life.

Answer 20

This question has been well answered by glurpy & i_come_from... and others.



So, instead of writing a tome, I will just repeat (from another answer I gave earlier) what I think is a great quote that so aptly applies to homeschool critics.



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"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - MLK, Jr.

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That just about says it all!

Answer 21

They do miss the above mentioned activities. My brother's wife initially home schooled her child but changed her mind as she had more kids. Teaching multi-age and abilities in one setting is challenging.

My brother's memories of his own school experiences are marred by childhood bullies, peer pressure, and contentious relationships with teachers. Since he wasn't willing to quit his job and homeschool, he had to concede to his wife's wishes. The children are now in a small Christian school. She is fine with that now but hopes they can go to the local public high school. (The Christian schools' classes are small, and there is usually only one teacher per grade. Sports, dances, etc. are limited or non-existent. )

Parents need to look at both the immediate needs of their children and what can help them reach long term goals. Some parents find their local elementary schools fine but feel the school environments in middle school or high school are less than desirable. For others, they prefer to home school when the children are little and when they are still impressionable. Then, when the material gets harder and the parents feel the kids have a stronger sense of their families' values, it is time for them to go to high school.

Answer 22

I will gladly respond!!



"I'm sure there are problems in public/private educations, but homeschooled kids miss out on:



The first day of school---well, there is a beginning and an end to everything

The LAST day of school---refer to last response

"Graduating" to the next grade---they will move on, but, not in the manner you are referring to

A schedule--this one, I think they do miss out on

Lunch Hour--well, everyone eats lunch, but the fun and socialization of the cafeteria will be missed

Recess--Well, home school only takes about two hours each day so therefore, the rest of the day is recess

Christmas break, spring break, summer break and the first day back from these breaks---alot of breaks, refer to the recess response

First crush, first kiss--depends on if their parents are homeschooling to keep them sheltered or for the benefit of the child... notably this whole situation will be harder to come upon without spending the day with peers

Coming home from school--- obviously they miss out on that because they never leave (coming home from an activity is very different than coming home from school)

Passing notes---Many people will say that passing notes is a distraction, however note writing and passing will continue throughout your life....

Making the honor roll---this will be missed out on

Going to dentention---I'd have to say that going to detention is something that children should WANT to miss out on

Going to school with the same kids & building friendships EVERY DAY---Definitely agree with this.... there is a difference in meeting someone at school than at an activity.

Learning to become a part of something that isn't your church/family/homeschool group---- Agree with this also

Struggling long division who are also struggling with long division----we are all going to struggle with things in our life, but it's nice to look over at the kid next to you and say "do you get this...no, me either"

Feeling embarassment---Again one of those things that would be missed based on setting

Being away from your mom/siblings for more than 1 or 2 hours.---Depends on if the child is allowed to attend sleepovers or trips

I'm not sure about this, so I'll post a question -- but learning about 'STUFF -- Christopher Columbus, Martin Luther King, Halloween, Valentine's Day, Art, Music, Sports. " Those are things that you will learn in your everyday life whether you are home taught or attend school





Yes, quiet az... there is alot of defense when this topic is concerned... as I have stated before, those of us who aren't home schooling parents aren't allowed to have an opinion here because this area has apparently become a support group, not a place where people can ask a question and get answers from multiple points of view. However, that will not stop me from having my opinion on home schooling (oh, and I'm not ignorant regarding the topic and contrary to popular belief, I have done my research)



My answer was neither rude or condescending... It is the negativity and defensiveness that is brewing through SOME (not all) of the supporters that causes me to have to defend my answers and my opinions. I am in no way on a high horse....just one person with a perspective. I have looked into both forms of education and I am the one who gets badgered on here for having an opinion that isn't "home schooling is the answer to all the problems in the world"... That being said look at the responses of the home schooling supporters and then tell me who is being close minded!!!

Answer 23

90% of the stuff on that list just isn't important.

Answer 24

I see there are already a lot of responses to this, but I'll give mine anyway.



The first day of school

~~~When I was homeschooled, I had a first day of school... it's the day after the last day of summer vacation! I got a new wardrobe too, like all the kids who wear out their clothes or grow out of their old ones. I also went to public school for a while, and the first day of school was only filled with anxiety about classes and teachers and fears about not looking good enough for the kids in my classes to accept me. Why would I want that superficial crap?



The LAST day of school

~~Getting done with another year of school when you're homeschooled feels just as good as it does when you're in public school.



"Graduating" to the next grade

~~~As far as I know, the only times you really have any kind of "graduation" are after kindergarten (sometimes), 5th grade, 8th grade, and 12th grade. I was in public school at the end of kindergarten and they didn't do anything special for us. In 5th grade, I couldn't have cared less. In 8th grade, I went to our homeschool group graduation ceremony and then had a big party with all my friends and relatives. For high school, I had a private ceremony with my family at a garden, and then we went out to dinner at a fancy restaurant, and I had a party with my friends. Granted, we didn't play "Pomp and Circumstance," and there was no valedictorian speech, but I didn't really feel like I was missing anything there. Nobody remembers the valedictorian speech unless you were the valedictorian anyway!



A schedule

~~I had a schedule. It was very flexible. I think most people would agree the flexible schedule = good.



Lunch Hour

~~Try lunch HOURS - booyah! But I'm guessing what you really mean is, the ability to talk to friend and trade Pringles for Doritos and whatnot. Well, I talked to my friends after school. Sometimes my homeschooled friends even came over and brought their books, and my mom would homeschool both of us for the day.



Recess

~~I took all kinds of athletic lessons and classes and jumped on my trampoline and swing set. Breaks from classwork are exciting no matter where you are!



Christmas break, spring break, summer break and the first day back from these breaks

~~I had all those breaks, and the first day back was just as agonizing as it was for any school kid. Yay?



First crush, first kiss

~~I had a first crush. He happened to be in my grade and was also my next-door neighbor's little brother. He used to come over and jump on our trampoline or play basketball in our driveway. I also had a first kiss, a friend from youth group who I met through another friend. Why would you be deprived of these things just because you are homeschooled?



Coming home from school

~~When I was in public school, coming home from school meant I had to ride on the bus in my assigned seat next to a girl I didn't like, and the diesel fumes made me sick, so I always had a stomach ache by the time I got home. Boy, do I miss that. *rolls eyes*



Passing notes

~~I actually pay attention to what is being taught to me



Making the honor roll

~~Honor roll is based on the grades that you get, and you still get grades in homeschool. The excitement of getting on honor roll mostly comes from your parents' pride in you, and my parents were still proud of me for getting those good grades. They still took me out to dinner or bought me something special every now and then to show they were proud of me.



Going to detention

~~Why would you NOT want to miss out on that?!! I don't seek trouble, so if I were in public school, I doubt I would have gotten detention anyway.



Going to school with the same kids & building friendships

EVERY DAY

~~I saw the same kids (and different ones too) on a regular basis. No, maybe not every day. But enough. I wasn't socially deprived. I also realized that I could be friends with people who were NOT my same age, in my same grade, and I was much more open to new people, since the group of people I was with changed often depending on what sport I was taking, etc. But I also had my good friends who I always kept in touch with. I've had the same best friend since kindergarten.



Learning to become a part of something that isn't your church/family/homeschool group.

~~I was part of tons of other activities, as I already mentioned. But couldn't you say that public schooled kids should also learn to become a part of something that isn't part of their church/family/school?



Struggling long division who are also struggling with long division

~~I had friend who were in the same grade. They didn't go to school with me, but we learned the same things at the same time, and talked on the phone about the many trials of long division, and got together on weekends or after school to try to figure it out together.



Feeling embarassment

~~Again, why would you want that? But believe me, there are plenty of opportunities for embarrassment away from school.



Being away from your mom/siblings for more than 1 or 2 hours.

~~I went to friend's houses and spent the night. A lot of kids go to camp. But I liked being with my family. We're tight. Happy families are a good thing!



I'm not sure about this, so I'll post a question -- but learning about 'STUFF -- Christopher Columbus, Martin Luther King, Halloween, Valentine's Day, Art, Music, Sports.

~~Well obviously I learned about Christopher Columbus, Martin Luther King, art, music, sports... it wouldn't be a very good education if I didn't!! We even got most school holidays off, like Columbus Day and MLK Day. And since it wasn't "yippie I don't have to go to school today" but more like "remind me again why I'm not doing school today?", I actually took the time during those days to think about the reason for them, which I doubt most kids do. And I dressed up and went trick-or-treating on Halloween, and I bought those little boxes of valentines and gave one to each of my friends when I saw them...



I hope the homeschool-haters read this thread of posts, and not just the people who are in favor of it.



P.S. sorry for the typos...I'm good with English but it's late and I'm tired and don't feel like proofreading.

Answer 25

tru dat!



wow! you people have a lot to say about this topic. it kinda sounds like you all are being really defensive. I was homeschooled up to 3rd grade and I chose to homeschooled for my 6th grade year. since then I have gone to public school and gotten very good grades. I admit that I am more academically inclined because I was homeschooled but I never had the benefit of being in a homeschool class, so I can't comment on that. Unfortunately after being in highschool I have been corrupted by the society we will all to face eventually (lol). Homeschooled kids are very sheltered and feel comfortable and secure at home but later on in life this can negative effects when they are on their own. just wanted expose the other side of this issue.

Answer 26

I'm not missing out on any of that.



I have a first day of school. The day all my materials and books arrive and I start using them. There's also the first day of co-op, the first day of the fencing competitive season, the first day in a new club/class, the first day of my college classes (I'm duel enrolled), the first day of a new camp, the first day of Student Ambassadors, etc.



Likewise, I have a last day of some of these things as well.



I always move on to something harder after mastering what I'm currently studying, so I do "graduate" to the next level. Just faster in some subjects than in others. Right now for example, I'm in "12th grade" for English but "11th grade" for math. Graduation just means that you've completed something, and I do that all the time. Fencing, music, band, college, co-op, braille, mobility, school in general really.



I have a schedule. It's not as rigid as public school, and it isn't chock full of busy work and sitting and waiting around doing nothing while the teacher and other kids get their acts together and are ready to move on. I always make the most of my time.



...I eat lunch. Never takes more than an hour. Believe it or not, I sometimes even go out to lunch and eat with other people! *gasp*



Recess is a break from work. I have plenty of those. Even at 17. There's no recess in public highschool, but I always get a chance to get outside and play my guitar in the park or bird watch or bike ride or kick a soccer ball around with a few friends.



I have a christmas break. And I usually get to decide when I have it and for how long. This year we made it a 10 day break, and arranged it so that it would match up with my friends' and boyfriend's since I planned to spend it playing witht he band and spending time with my boyfriend and his family as well as my own. I'm planning to do something similar for Spring break, and I'm hoping to spend my Summer break (which is usually fairly long since I get so far ahead and can afford more time off) traveling with friends and maybe checking out some colleges.



Obviously I have a first day back to schooling after these breaks.



First crush... Had plenty of little crushes, and the most recent one wasn't so little. First kiss? Well, that's really none of anyone else's business, but if you care to know it took place last spring break with my boyfriend and it was wonderful!



Tell me what's so amazing about comming home from school? Since I actually have time to see more of the world than just home and school, I come home from a lot of places. I come home from fencing, the park, the library, friends' houses, volunteering, co-op, fairs, braille, mobility, guitar lessons, sporting events, parties, traveling alone, traveling with family, traveling with friends/boyfriend, camps, Student Ambassadors (yeah, I've come home from other countries before. Much better than comming home from school), and so on. And sometimes I even take busses home! *double gasp*



Passing notes? Last I checked you weren't supposed to do this in school. I have done it before though. Once when my bf and three of our friends and I went out of state (without parents, wow!) to a National Federation of the Blind convention, we passed notes in braille durring one of the presentations. And I've given notes to people in other places as well... and I IM and E-mail... I honestly don't see what the big deal is. "OOH! Instead of learning like I came here to do, I'm going to pass pieces of paper with poorly spelled messages on them which I could easily deliver or verbalize after class anyway! What fun!!"



All honor roll is is a reward system. You get A's, you get a ribbon and a bumper sticker and maybe a special breakfast for your parents. I don't get grades in the traditional sense because I never move on in any subject until I can show I've mastered it. No squeaking by with just a D. I'm doing it to learn, not to just barely get by. If I haven't mastered a concept, I keep at it until I have. So you could say I'm always on the honor roll because I never move on until I have a 100% A.



Since when is detention something you don't want to miss out on? Even when I was in public school I always "missed out' on this. Why would you WANT to go to detention. If you mean missing out on consequences, well I don't miss out on those either. In my household, my mother believes in learning from natural consequences, and it works. If I stay up to an ungodly hour, well my schedule is screwed up the next day. I don't want that. If I slack off and don't do school work, I don't learn, I don't advance, I suffer the embarassment of being lost in the dark on something others know all about and I don't go to college and become anything that I'll be happy with. And I only have myself to blame. If I don't clean my room, I lose things and it's no one's responsibility to help me find them. If I'm rude to someone, I lose good standing with that someone. If I don't say no to drugs, next thing you know I'll be in rehab or in jail. It's common sense. Every action has a natural consequence. If you learn from the little ones early on you will be able to look out for the big ones and make the right choices in life. Much more affective than detention.



As for this next one, I do see the same FRIENDS (people I found and formed a friendship with naturally, not people who were forced on me because we all ended up being herded into the same pen based on our year of birth) on a regular basis. My fencing friends are always there on the days I go fencing. My co-op friends are always there for classes and field trips. College classes, clubs, lessons, etc... But I also get a lot more variety. There are people i see regularly, but there are also new people EVERYWHERE. And people of all ages, races, backgrounds, education levels, interests, cultures, you name it. It's a big world, and since the bulk of my waking hours isn't spent either at school or at home, I get to explore it and meet the people in it. I have close friends my age, younger, in college...in this state, in others, in other cities, in other countries even! (I love student ambassadors). And I'm drawn to some very eclectic groups.



Why doesn't a homeschool group count as being a "part of something"? This person excluded a number of things in an attempt to make a public school all that's left I think. Well, they failed. I'm a part of the fencing club... I vote in officer elections, mentor younger fencers, help teach classes, am taught in classes, compete, cheer for others who compete. I belong there. I am also an active part of the Advisery Comitty at the local library. I'm a valued member of a band. I'm a proud part of the National Federation of the Blind. I'm an active volunteer which makes me a part of my community. I'll be 18 soon, so I'll be a part (a voting part) of the majority. I'm a part of an eclectic group of young programmers working on a number of interesting projects. I'm a member of a local club for blind teenagers who plan to attend college... Those all sound like somethings to me.



It took a bit of thinking to interpret this next one, but I think the writer means "struggling in long division with others who struggle in long division". Well, I am far beyond long division and I can tell you I didn't struggle with it, however I do struggle with Algebra 2 because of a need to know WHY things work the way they do, and not just how to use a certain formula. The only benefit i can see from struggling along with someone is that shared pain is divided... It's nice to have someone to vent to who knows where you're comming from. Well, I have that. I have plenty of friends (public school and homeschool, and even some adult friends) who HATE math for many of the reasons I do. We're all at different levels though, so even though we all have our weaknesses in math, we also have our strengths and can help eachother out. It's great.



Um...Embarassment is a natural human emotion. EVERYONE feels embarrassment at times, no matter where they go to school. You could feel embarassment in your own home, in friends' homes, in any public place, at any event/class/club, at college, on the playground, on the soccer field, durring the big game, at the party, at the dance, among perfect strangers, on stage, you name it. You can even feel it when you're completely alone!



Do you think homeschoolers spend the bulk of their day at the end of a toddler leash? lol. Between all the activities I listed (and more i haven't), general erands, going out to study at the park or the library, etc, I am hardly able to cling to mommy's leg. I'm BLIND, and I think I have more independence in and outside the home than most public schoolers do. I even travel alone/with friends sometimes. Throw in travel and you could say I spend weeks at a time without some relative there to hold my hand. lol. I spent an entire month away from parents/siblings last summer traveling with my boyfriend and three of our friends. I spent another month before then in Europe with the student ambassador program. I've been to camps, sleep overs, conventions, college programs...



Um, one of the major points of homeschooling is to get a QUALITY EDUCATION! If we study all the subjects you study in school and then some (and we do), why wouldn't we learn about Christopher Columbus, Martin Luther King, Halloween (I actually did a cultural project on the history of halloween in other countries this past year), Valentines day, etc. We also have art classes, and we have music (band, chorus, orchestra in HS groups or music schools in the community, individual instrument lessons, home study in music theory, city/state orchestra, band, etc)



Do some research. Homeschoolers who know what they're doing (and most do) don't miss out on any of this.



DHC, you might also consider backing up your answers sometimes. There was an answerer on here once who had nothing good to say about homeschooling... But rather than simply blurting out opinions and treating them like solid truths, they actually provided FACTS to back up their OPINIONS. Or at least a decent explanation. If you're going to say things like "comming home form activities isn't the same as comming home from school", you might get less "ridicule" if you could give some explanation of WHY it isn't the same. If you explained your reasoning, you might get a little more respect. I never accept a statement as truth or even consider it for long if the person making it can't even explain WHY. We're not lemmings, and no one should be.