Aren't homeschooling parents at the very least robbing their children from the marketplace of ideas?

Question

1. I understand why you would want to home school
2. There is a tremendous amount of evidence that not only do homeschool students are more highly educated and even manage to be socially well adjusted over time, which I also understand.
3. I think it is great that parents want to be so very involved in the progress, safety and well being all-around of your children.

But in the end, with all their intelligence, aren't you just turning them into little fascists by your own example of fascism? I mean you can influence them any way you want, for year after year. And if you want to keep them under the thumb of any religion, politic, idealism that you see fit you can, and your homeschoolers will do whatever you say or do. While they may be able to solve calculus problems at 12, will you keep them from the works of Kant and Locke if you are Christian? Or will you keep them from Augustine and Bonhoeffer if you are Muslim or Jewish? Then add that into the vibe I get from most hard core home schooling parents who seems like they are making up for some emotional or psychological need that they didn't get growing up and you have all the starting points of fascist thinking. I mean these are simple, almost silly examples, but my point stands. Is not what you are doing robbing children from the marketplace of ideas and like the worst of all tyrannical fascists, turning them into little versions of yourselves when maybe you are not as great as you think you are? How will they be able to deal with the threat and success of others who have formed their opinions by searching through the marketplace of ideas and deciding for themselves without the threat of disappointing selfish parents?

Answer 1

You argue from the premiss that people home educate to limit, whereas where I live (in the UK) it is the education provided by schools that is limited. My child will be able to study whatever interests her, not what some government wonk has decided she should learn. For example home educating friends of mine are doing a world religions project and not just reading about them but arranging visits to mosques and temples so the kids can get a real feel for them and meet and talk to people of those faiths. BTW I'm a Buddhist.



Since your case seems to be against evangelical Christians maybe you should have phrased your question more carefully.

Answer 2

"Marketplace of ideas?" If public schools were such a hotbed of new and wonderful ideas, then how come we have global warming and peak oil with no great ideas to solve the problems? And war? And droughts?

Maybe because I remember school without the delusion of nostalgia clouding my memory. You are told what to think. You are told to fit in, and WOE to any child who is not like everyone else. Those students having the great ideas are mocked and tormented because they are different from the status quo. So, for those of us homeschooling for educational reasons, our kids will grow up with the tools to progress further than the state taught sheep. 1 kid might make a real difference.



As for the religious whack-jobs who are homeschooling, look, I just don't think it matters. I mean, the parents all went to public school and still turned out weird. Obviously public school is no cure for THAT sort of crazy.

Also, and here's the part that makes you look young, when you have kids, you'll see that you can't MAKE them into anything. They are people and they will become who they are with or without you. You can either constantly thwart them and then they grow up to hate you or you can help them and guild them to be the people they are destined to be. You try MAKING a teen do anything he/she doesn't want to do. Heck, try making a 2-year-old do something they don't want to do! If you're over 18, when you moved out of your parents home, how much did you behave exactly as your parents would want you to behave? Especially in college?

And, as an English Major (minored in astro-physics for kicks), I never read Kant, never heard of Bonhoeffer, and I've been to St. Augustine but never heard of just plain Augustine. Not everyone has to have read every single book ever written to have an education, in the public or the private sector. Have you read those books? Do you use them as topics when you strike up conversations with people? Also, once homeschooled kids go to college, they'll have to read PLENTY of standard mainstream classics the first 2 years if they missed something along the way. I'm betting though, that quite a few will be able to quote authors at you that you've never heard of or read, along with experiences they've been able to have growing up that public school kids will never experience.

Manipulators have manipulated their kids since people could breed. When a homeschool kid shoots up a bunch of innocent bystanders, come back and we'll talk. Until then, it's the public school kids that are way poorly adjusted to society.

Answer 3

I think you're right sometimes, even often, but it is possible for homeschooling parents to provide the market place of ideas for their children. Not many high school students who go to traditional schools read Kant, Locke, Augustine or Bonhoeffer. A home-schooled student old enough to go to the library on his or her own can read these works as easily as a child who is in school. It really depends on whether the parent who is homeschooling (or raising the child who is schooled) is a deep enough thinker to encourage their child to look beyond his or her personal beliefs. You're right that a lot aren't - but there are a lot of parents who send their children to school who aren't deep thinkers either.

Answer 4

To our question "asker":



Your arguments are based on some logical fallacies.



1. That Christians are foolish individuals who aren't smart and haven't done their homework. Frankly, Sir, I find it curious that you assume that just because someone chooses to believe in something they can't see then they are foolish. This assumption itself is a contradiction to your own apparent value of doing "homework." Sure, not ALL Christians have done their homework about what they believe. But many have researched it and have come to the conclusion that there IS a God.



On the other hand (and using your measure), take a poll on how many atheists have done their homework about what they believe. You'll find nearly an equal number on both sides of the fence who buy their chosen belief lock, stock and barrel without "reading up."



Atheism is as much a religion as any. It requires just as much faith NOT to believe in a God as it does to believe that there IS a God. You cannot prove either way whether or not God exists. Therefore, faith is required of everyone who forms ANY opinion. It boils down to what one WANTS to believe about their origins and how one wants to live their life.



2. Your arguments appear to not be based in fact, or actual statistics. They're based solely on your personal experience and stereotypical assumptions (see: propaganda) about people of faith.



3. The evidence revealing the low quality of public school education, STD's, suicide rates and teen pregnancy rates within public school systems, and actual facts and statistics on public school quality is indictment enough against the public school system.



Ultimately, your argument in a nutshell is that "free thought" is discouraged by most of those evangelicals who homeschool their children. Your personal opinion is the only evidence you offer in support of this. Therefore, my opinion is all I will offer in support of my stance.



And here it is: Public schools do NOT offer a chance for kids to form their own opinions and think "freely." This is the reason: Kids (by their very nature) will attach themselves TO and align themselves WITH the loudest and most prevailent voices in their lives. How else do you explain why 99 percent of young people have the same favorite pop artist and dress exactly the same? It's not until we get closer to being adults (sometime in our teens) that we actually BEGIN develop the ability to form our own reasoned and mature opinions.



Even when this ability is developed, most of us choose not to exercise that ability. Why? No one taught us to in the public schools.

Answer 5

While this is a concern among many non-homeschoolers, I have not found it to be a concern among homeschooling families simply because I have never known any homeschool parents who want their kids to think like them.

I grew up in a very conservative Christian home. However, I read the Koran, the Book of Mormon, and Hindu and Bhudist teachings. I volunteered for more than one political party before the age of 14 (because I wanted too), and had many teachers and tutors who did not hold the same views as my parents. In general, this is how most of my homeschool friends were/are educated.

Honestly, this forum is a good place to look at the way public schools are educating kids. Take a look at the answers to these questions. All the public school kids think exactly alike, "Go to school because even though it sucks you'll have friends...blah, blah, blah, " and, "Homeschoolers don't have a social life." (actually, studies have shown that homeschoolers are in general more social than their public schooled peers.) No resources to back up their statements. No personal experience with homeschooling. Just what they're been spoon-fed by their peers. Now. Between the homeschoolers and public schoolers, who seems to be thinking like robots?



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*edit* So, you don't think public schools are the ideal place for the 'market place of ideas' but you want to send your children there? I feel truly sorry for your kids. They may have thrived with homeschooling, but because you are unwilling to allow your mind to be 'molded around the concept' of homeschooling, you will never consider this option of education for them.

You're not a fan of public or homeschooling, and you believe in charter schools in 'some' cases? What are you a fan of?

Also, where are you getting this '75%' that you seem to state as fact? I grew up homeschooled (and evangelical Christian) and was involved in two homeschool groups in my area. (Literally hundreds and hundreds of families.) I live in the bible belt and I can tell you it was more like 40-50%. Can you give me a link that supports your 'fact'?

And yes, you are right. Homeschooling does allow for parents to turn their children into little clones, but that defeats the purpose of homeschooling for most people.

I can guarantee that I know more homeschoolers than you and I don't know any of them who are clones of their parents, or any parents who don't want their children to think for themselves.

Answer 6

First of all I think that it completely depends on the district. All of the people I know that have been home schooled were home schooled because they were being robbed of the individuality and eagerness to learn. After all how can you really learn if you don't really want to? Learning should be fun it shouldn't be annoying or boring and that's what some public schools are making it. That's wrong.

Answer 7

I'd much rather have my children picking up the ideas and habits that our family finds acceptable than to be influenced by God knows what in the public school system. Like my bumper sticker says "I've seen the village..and I DON'T want it raising my children"

Answer 8

I read your entire question.



It seems like a rant to me.



I could write a very long answer all about how we don't fit onto your idea of who homeschoolers are, but you have already decided, so it would be a waste of my time.



I think you need to calm down. Homeschooling is here to stay, and your anger is only hurting you.



All the best.

Answer 9

Wow a little harsh? You sound like the brainwashed product of the public school system. That is the perfect place to learn how to be a "little fascist". Public school offers no chance of individuality. You are not allowed to think for yourself or offer different opinions without being bullied by the teachers. You aren't taught thinking or problem solving skills. Every example of the "fascist" thinking you have given is what it currently taught in the public school system.

Answer 10

You know how they say something like "We fell into each other's arms?" That almost literally happened with my parents. My aunt was moving out of my grandparents' house, and her friend helped her move, and he knew my father, and so my father went along for the ride when my aunt's friend helped her move, and my mother was tagging along for the ride, as well, and when my mother got in the back seat of the car, my father was already sitting there with his arm out and resting on the back of the seat, as if it was an arm rest, and my mother ended up sitting where my father's arm was extended out. So, my parents met in the back seat of a car, with my father's arm around where my mother sat down.

Answer 11

I went to public school. The assumption and assertion that public school students ARE all exposed to Locke and Kant is faulty. We were taught exactly what the public institution dictated and nothing more. A greater influx of ideas is NOT what I experienced as a public school student. The first time I heard the names Locke, Kant and Bonhoeffer I was in college.



Based on my personal experience in the public school, I made the choice to homeschool. My children are hearing EVERY idea from evolution, to discussions on sex and birth control. The only difference is, they're hearing it from a Christian world-view and not a humanistic point of view.



In response to your assertion that we're fasscists for desiring that our children learn from a Christian world-view, I would pose this question: "If anyone has the choice of influencing their child's thinking or letting a state run system influence it, why WOULDN'T you choose to be the guardian of your own child's world-view?" Who cares MORE about my child's development? ME or the state?



We see that the state has done a reprehensible job of educating our children overall. Graduation rates are at an all time low in America. In addition, we see the stats on increasing teen pregnancy, suicide, STD, drug use, and the general age of sexual activity lowering.



In addition, have you recently tried to hold a conversation with most public school students? Good luck. Their answers are reduced most times to little more than grunts and one-word answers. Socialization? It would seem the public school system has done a nice job of homogenizing the social skills of most of our students to the lowest common denomiator. Sure, there are exceptions. But the percentage of public school teens who can hold an intelligent conversation with an adult is much lower than the percentage of homeschool students. It's a fact.



The average public school student's sense of self entitlement and utter lack of concern about anyone but themselves is appalling. Where are kids picking these things up? They're picking them up in a public school where the chief focus on a daily basis is indeed NOT education. And it's getting worse.



It's simply a state-sponsored myth that socialization is a problem for most homeschoolers. The social resources available to homeschool students in most communities are numerous. Homeschool students on the whole are happy, content, well adusted, eloquent, better educated and more responsible than their public school counterparts, and have a better grasp on the "big picture" in life.



Now, regarding fascism, have you read the manifests of the creators of the first government-sponsored public school stystems created during the industrial revolution? In short, public school systems were created by elitist corporate-types to produce a docile, drone-like working class citizen who would do what the establishment told them to do.



The goal of the public school system as it was created and as it exists presently is not to create a spring-board to greatness for each child. Essentialy, the goal is to create citizens who all (for the most part) think alike, have similar state-indoctrinated self-images of who they are as citizens and where they fit into society.



The result of the state telling you who you are and where you fit into socitey is much the same as the goal of communism and socialism; to bring the low up (which is good in principle) and push the exceptional down. Homogenized, mass-produced equality that ultimately works to the advantage of the state is their aim.



I am a perfect example. I spent two years in a homeschool situation. My test average was an A minus. I had one-on-one daily instruction according to my own learning style. I was very successful and had higher knowledge retention than I did when I was in the public school system.



On the other hand, when I was previously in the the public school system, I appeared lazy and as if I didn't have what it took to grasp learning. My teachers thought I didn't care. However, it was apparent that the teachers (for the most part) didn't care about or weren't able to give attention to my individual development. Yes, there were excecptions. But I was dragged along with the rest of my class with little personal attention to my learning needs. I graduated. But I had a much lower GPA than I could have achieved.



In summary, it's not fascism to present the same ideas to my children as they will get in public school, but from a Christian world-view. They are presently and will continue to hear EVERY idea presented in the public school and MORE. For example, how many public school students start studying Latin in elementary school?



I would rather I influence my children year after year than a public school system who's chief concern is their own funding; NOT my kid's education.

Answer 12

Latin? in elementary school? That should come in handy when they go to Pompeii. Hot house flowers with helicopter parents. If you are dissatisfied with the public system then a few additional classes after school will help them, but to bring them up in a bubble away from the world as it is and to shield them from it instead of exposing them to it and helping them pull through with flying colors - now to me, that's a major mistake.

Answer 13

Yes, that is a very real danger..